Comments on: The Angels of Death Are We

By: Doug Roorda

Doug Roorda — Fri, 18 Dec 2009 16:09:49 +0000

Thanks Mike. I’ll try to send some detailed thoughts back on this after a while. I like your willingness to believe the testimony of the young’uns; most paedo-baptists [at least in principle] don’t because they deny communion to those they say believe and profess. And I have some knee-jerk paedo-bapits reaction to some other things you wrote, which I won’t respond to immediately since I don’t feel like I really know what you’re thinking yet. But I’m curious though, why you say that infants cannot testify?

——–
We had 16″ of snow a week ago in Iowa; maybe more coming in a few days. So sweltering sounds like fun.

Blessings,
Doug Roorda

By: Mike Bull

Mike Bull — Tue, 15 Dec 2009 23:11:50 +0000

Hi Doug

Thanks for visiting! And for your comment.

Both salvation and resurrection have always been part of the promise. But I think applying the promise to Israel’s children has to be qualified, or at least updated, concerning the New Covenant.

Yes, we have children whom we raise for God in hope, but the promise is not to our physical seed. Israel is no longer a nation bound by blood but by Spirit. The NT speaks of family and children as those who do what Jesus says. He has taken it to the next level, and the “sacramental boundary marker” reflects this. It is for the obedient.

For sure, children can have strong faith and say profound things (mine do!) but if this is the case, if they believe and testify, they should be baptized. Infants cannot testify. But a credo-paedo-baptism I think should certainly be promoted by baptists! If a child believes, it should be “commissioned” by baptism.

Regarding history, all Israel was saved. The promises were fulfilled, and I believe the first resurrection occurred in AD70. That was the end of Israel according to the flesh.

Have a great Christmas. As you freeze, think of us as we swelter.

Mike

By: Doug Roorda

Doug Roorda — Tue, 15 Dec 2009 15:31:21 +0000

Mike,

Greetings in Christ. I’ve been reading and enjoying your blog for some time. Now that we have met on another list, I feel more free to comment collegially, rather than as some random troll on the internet. And I probably won’t be able to respond in a lot of detail to anything that comes up, at least immediately, so it could be a slow conversation.

Anyway, you write “Circumcision was a promise of salvation (Jesus’ death). Baptism and the Lord’s Supper are not.” My simple question – God promised salvation to the children of believers before the time of Christ, and commanded parents to treat them as fellow believers and disciples (and commended parents who did so). When did God stop promising salvation to children of believers in this age?

I don’t see any problem with handing a sword to an infant in Christ though (And Jesus saith to them, ‘Yes, did ye never read, that, Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings Thou didst prepare praise? Matthew 21:16)

Keep up the wonderful blog, and have a blessed Christmas!

Blessings in Christ
Doug Roorda