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	<title>Comments on: Did Plato Read Moses?</title>
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	<link>http://www.bullartistry.com.au/wp/2010/01/04/did-plato-read-moses/</link>
	<description>Theology you can eat and drink</description>
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		<title>By: Mike Bull</title>
		<link>http://www.bullartistry.com.au/wp/2010/01/04/did-plato-read-moses/comment-page-1/#comment-20600</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike Bull]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Aug 2012 22:14:13 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Concerning the command to wipe out those living in Canaan, the Covenant made with Abraham was a shelter for them for the time being. Their sin was &quot;not yet full.&quot; Their destruction was the curses of that Covenant being poured out. They had used the longsuffering of God to fill up their sin.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Concerning the command to wipe out those living in Canaan, the Covenant made with Abraham was a shelter for them for the time being. Their sin was &#8220;not yet full.&#8221; Their destruction was the curses of that Covenant being poured out. They had used the longsuffering of God to fill up their sin.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Bull</title>
		<link>http://www.bullartistry.com.au/wp/2010/01/04/did-plato-read-moses/comment-page-1/#comment-20599</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike Bull]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Aug 2012 22:12:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bullartistry.com.au/wp/?p=4044#comment-20599</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Very interesting observation concerning the Nephilim.
Jordan points out that the Babylonian &quot;flood&quot; disempowered all the Canaanite nations as well as Israel, that is, Ham and Shem. But only Israel, Shem rose again as a new Land, to minister to Japheth, and bring him into the tent. Japheth becomes the focus after the exile.
The same pattern occurs in the first century, with the Church as a new Shem, the Jewish rulers as Cainites and all nations as Japheth.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very interesting observation concerning the Nephilim.<br />
Jordan points out that the Babylonian &#8220;flood&#8221; disempowered all the Canaanite nations as well as Israel, that is, Ham and Shem. But only Israel, Shem rose again as a new Land, to minister to Japheth, and bring him into the tent. Japheth becomes the focus after the exile.<br />
The same pattern occurs in the first century, with the Church as a new Shem, the Jewish rulers as Cainites and all nations as Japheth.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://www.bullartistry.com.au/wp/2010/01/04/did-plato-read-moses/comment-page-1/#comment-20598</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Patrick]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Aug 2012 22:03:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bullartistry.com.au/wp/?p=4044#comment-20598</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[All of the groups Yahweh commanded Joshua to destroy had &quot;nephilim&quot; among them. Not sure why it&#039;s such a difficult subject, but, it is.

 That&#039;s another reason for the total destruction of those communities. Implacable opposition to God and the capability and desire to kill off God&#039;s people, thus preventing Messiah.

 Had they not been whacked, the Jews would have been and Yahweh would have none of that.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All of the groups Yahweh commanded Joshua to destroy had &#8220;nephilim&#8221; among them. Not sure why it&#8217;s such a difficult subject, but, it is.</p>
<p> That&#8217;s another reason for the total destruction of those communities. Implacable opposition to God and the capability and desire to kill off God&#8217;s people, thus preventing Messiah.</p>
<p> Had they not been whacked, the Jews would have been and Yahweh would have none of that.</p>
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		<title>By: Maria Bethany</title>
		<link>http://www.bullartistry.com.au/wp/2010/01/04/did-plato-read-moses/comment-page-1/#comment-19961</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Maria Bethany]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jul 2012 18:38:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bullartistry.com.au/wp/?p=4044#comment-19961</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Plato was a “good Pagan” as far as “benevolent dictators” go. But I studied his works intensely, and I testify that he had not much in common with Moses. Moses brought his people out of bondage under the guidance of the Spirit of God. However, significantly, Plato believed that slavery is the prerequisite of civilization. He believed that slavery provides for the “leisure class” that civilized societies need for leadership. Consequently, he would not agree that freeing the slaves is a good idea. From this originates the immense Theo-political discrepancy between the Hellenist and the Biblical worldviews, and this is the root cause of our persistent culture war. We believe in freedom, the followers of Plato do not.  

We believe in freedom, because we believe we are able to utilize the guiding Power of the Spirit of God. Concerning the “natural man” (meaning Adam and Eve), the lesson from the story of the fall is clear. Eve had the ability to obey God, but she failed because she was deceived. She thought that by following the counsel of Satan, she, herself, would be like God. This is our major problem. We are easily deceived by evil ideas that look so good.  

Even the Pagans knew that mankind does not live up to its potential. If mankind were naturally evil, we would have no hope. In fact, if we were fundamentally evil, we could not even realize that we are evil. But Christ came to HEAL us. Healing means He is restoring us to the original spiritual health God intended. 

The Pagans, by nature, are aware of sin, but they deny the Spirit, hence they are helpless to fight it. They are pessimistic about the improvement of behavior, except by biological means, using chemicals. Christians believe that the Spirit of God can restore the human being, through faith in the Son. Consequently, Christians have hope, and they strive to be better. I learned seventy years ago that I can be better if I pray. The Christian doctrine is simple, even a child can learn it. But as adults, we disbelieve the Truth, because we cannot understand how the Power of the Spirit of God works. Thus, we put our ability of understanding in the front, using it as the measure of Truth. If we can’t figure it out, it must be humbug!! 

True, “American civilization will increasingly vanish as people abandon the Word of God.” But why are we abandoning the Word of God? Because we are idolizing Reason. As long as we think Reason is the measure of all things, we are idolaters, no better than the Canaanites. We will turn in the right direction as soon as we admit that reason has its limitations. We cannot perceive transcendental reality by reason. We are led to Truth by obedient faith. (Act 5:32)  

I was raised in a Calvinist family, but I was not taught that “the benefits of Christianity are the result of human reason.” I was taught that “The just shall live by faith”; and God helps those who help themselves. I was taught that understanding comes by keeping fellowship with God. Apparently, Calvinism “trickles down” in many forms.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Plato was a “good Pagan” as far as “benevolent dictators” go. But I studied his works intensely, and I testify that he had not much in common with Moses. Moses brought his people out of bondage under the guidance of the Spirit of God. However, significantly, Plato believed that slavery is the prerequisite of civilization. He believed that slavery provides for the “leisure class” that civilized societies need for leadership. Consequently, he would not agree that freeing the slaves is a good idea. From this originates the immense Theo-political discrepancy between the Hellenist and the Biblical worldviews, and this is the root cause of our persistent culture war. We believe in freedom, the followers of Plato do not.  </p>
<p>We believe in freedom, because we believe we are able to utilize the guiding Power of the Spirit of God. Concerning the “natural man” (meaning Adam and Eve), the lesson from the story of the fall is clear. Eve had the ability to obey God, but she failed because she was deceived. She thought that by following the counsel of Satan, she, herself, would be like God. This is our major problem. We are easily deceived by evil ideas that look so good.  </p>
<p>Even the Pagans knew that mankind does not live up to its potential. If mankind were naturally evil, we would have no hope. In fact, if we were fundamentally evil, we could not even realize that we are evil. But Christ came to HEAL us. Healing means He is restoring us to the original spiritual health God intended. </p>
<p>The Pagans, by nature, are aware of sin, but they deny the Spirit, hence they are helpless to fight it. They are pessimistic about the improvement of behavior, except by biological means, using chemicals. Christians believe that the Spirit of God can restore the human being, through faith in the Son. Consequently, Christians have hope, and they strive to be better. I learned seventy years ago that I can be better if I pray. The Christian doctrine is simple, even a child can learn it. But as adults, we disbelieve the Truth, because we cannot understand how the Power of the Spirit of God works. Thus, we put our ability of understanding in the front, using it as the measure of Truth. If we can’t figure it out, it must be humbug!! </p>
<p>True, “American civilization will increasingly vanish as people abandon the Word of God.” But why are we abandoning the Word of God? Because we are idolizing Reason. As long as we think Reason is the measure of all things, we are idolaters, no better than the Canaanites. We will turn in the right direction as soon as we admit that reason has its limitations. We cannot perceive transcendental reality by reason. We are led to Truth by obedient faith. (Act 5:32)  </p>
<p>I was raised in a Calvinist family, but I was not taught that “the benefits of Christianity are the result of human reason.” I was taught that “The just shall live by faith”; and God helps those who help themselves. I was taught that understanding comes by keeping fellowship with God. Apparently, Calvinism “trickles down” in many forms.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Bull</title>
		<link>http://www.bullartistry.com.au/wp/2010/01/04/did-plato-read-moses/comment-page-1/#comment-16316</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike Bull]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Mar 2012 13:14:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bullartistry.com.au/wp/?p=4044#comment-16316</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi John - yes, Israel was a blessing to all nations even back then.

And I have a book on the theology of food coming out some time soon.

Feel free to have a wander around. Let me know if you&#039;d be interested in my two books in biblical structure.

Thanks for visiting,
Mike]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi John &#8211; yes, Israel was a blessing to all nations even back then.</p>
<p>And I have a book on the theology of food coming out some time soon.</p>
<p>Feel free to have a wander around. Let me know if you&#8217;d be interested in my two books in biblical structure.</p>
<p>Thanks for visiting,<br />
Mike</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.bullartistry.com.au/wp/2010/01/04/did-plato-read-moses/comment-page-1/#comment-16312</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Mar 2012 13:03:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bullartistry.com.au/wp/?p=4044#comment-16312</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Good stuff, Mike!  I think there is something to the Plato-Moses connection, on multiple levels.  Hmmm, &quot;Theology that you can eat and drink&quot;--that&#039;s a Eucharistic reference, right?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good stuff, Mike!  I think there is something to the Plato-Moses connection, on multiple levels.  Hmmm, &#8220;Theology that you can eat and drink&#8221;&#8211;that&#8217;s a Eucharistic reference, right?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Victor</title>
		<link>http://www.bullartistry.com.au/wp/2010/01/04/did-plato-read-moses/comment-page-1/#comment-9183</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Victor]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 May 2011 12:59:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bullartistry.com.au/wp/?p=4044#comment-9183</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;The ancient Israelites, under instructions from the Christian god, considered it a badge of honour to kill every man, woman and child in Canaan.&quot;

Basilides,

You seriously misunderstand the biblical story of the conquest of Canaan. If you really do want to understand how the texts are to be understood, you should read Paul Copan&#039;s &quot;Is God a Moral Monster?&quot;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The ancient Israelites, under instructions from the Christian god, considered it a badge of honour to kill every man, woman and child in Canaan.&#8221;</p>
<p>Basilides,</p>
<p>You seriously misunderstand the biblical story of the conquest of Canaan. If you really do want to understand how the texts are to be understood, you should read Paul Copan&#8217;s &#8220;Is God a Moral Monster?&#8221;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Mike Bull</title>
		<link>http://www.bullartistry.com.au/wp/2010/01/04/did-plato-read-moses/comment-page-1/#comment-9174</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike Bull]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 May 2011 23:20:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bullartistry.com.au/wp/?p=4044#comment-9174</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[God told Abraham that he would not give the land to him but to his descendants because the sin of the Amorites was not yet &quot;full.&quot; In other words, they had some time left to either believe what Abraham proclaimed and avert God&#039;s judgment, or disregard it and continue in their sins, which included child sacrifice.

The killing of the Canaanites was a judicial execution by God. He cut them out of history like a cancer. Except they didn&#039;t did they? Israel disobeyed God and ended up adopting the Canaanite practices.

Your indignation against God is entirely one-eyed if you are ignorant of what God did to Israel under the sword of Babylon when Israel took on the murderous practices of the Canaanites and sacrificed their children. God is not a respecter of persons. Repent, or be judged, man, woman and child.

What is interesting is that, typologically, the sword of death prefigured the gospel, a sword that divides between believers and unbelievers wherever it goes.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>God told Abraham that he would not give the land to him but to his descendants because the sin of the Amorites was not yet &#8220;full.&#8221; In other words, they had some time left to either believe what Abraham proclaimed and avert God&#8217;s judgment, or disregard it and continue in their sins, which included child sacrifice.</p>
<p>The killing of the Canaanites was a judicial execution by God. He cut them out of history like a cancer. Except they didn&#8217;t did they? Israel disobeyed God and ended up adopting the Canaanite practices.</p>
<p>Your indignation against God is entirely one-eyed if you are ignorant of what God did to Israel under the sword of Babylon when Israel took on the murderous practices of the Canaanites and sacrificed their children. God is not a respecter of persons. Repent, or be judged, man, woman and child.</p>
<p>What is interesting is that, typologically, the sword of death prefigured the gospel, a sword that divides between believers and unbelievers wherever it goes.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Basilides</title>
		<link>http://www.bullartistry.com.au/wp/2010/01/04/did-plato-read-moses/comment-page-1/#comment-9173</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Basilides]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 May 2011 15:02:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bullartistry.com.au/wp/?p=4044#comment-9173</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Don Richardson, a missionary to the Sawi people of Irian Jaya, reports that in the tribe among whom he worked it was considered a badge of honour to befriend and then betray a member of a neighbouring tribe.&quot;

And the ancient Israelites, under instructions from the Christian god, considered it a badge of honour to kill every man, woman and child in Canaan.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Don Richardson, a missionary to the Sawi people of Irian Jaya, reports that in the tribe among whom he worked it was considered a badge of honour to befriend and then betray a member of a neighbouring tribe.&#8221;</p>
<p>And the ancient Israelites, under instructions from the Christian god, considered it a badge of honour to kill every man, woman and child in Canaan.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Hiram</title>
		<link>http://www.bullartistry.com.au/wp/2010/01/04/did-plato-read-moses/comment-page-1/#comment-2325</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hiram]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jan 2010 05:17:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bullartistry.com.au/wp/?p=4044#comment-2325</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Mike, I thoroughly enjoyed this :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike, I thoroughly enjoyed this <img src="http://www.bullartistry.com.au/wp/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" class="wp-smiley" /> </p>
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