Comments on: The Lord’s Prayer

By: Mike Bull

Mike Bull — Thu, 20 Feb 2014 00:47:25 +0000

David – I don’t think that was me but it is a good observation.

By: Mike Bull

Mike Bull — Wed, 19 Feb 2014 07:52:11 +0000

Thanks Mike
This post assumes a fair amount of familiarity with previous material.
The prayer is certainly part of the Sermon on the Mount and nobody is disputing that. Chris’ point (and mine) is that the prayer also follows a formula common throughout the Bible. It begins with God, moves through a human delegation, who are tested, then rewarded/cursed, and ends in the glory of God. I guess you could say it’s deep structure, or the internal logic of everything God does. So it’s not reading things *into* the text so much as discovering why they are ordered they way they are. That’s what the coming seminar is about: a common literary/historical architecture. This prayer is thus also a microcosm of the entire Bible. Everything is a process of maturity and it has exactly the same stamp. But we need to learn the Bible’s pictorial language first. For instance, the bread and wine theme has ties to the Land of Israel, the Table of Showbread and the Land of Day 3 in Genesis 1, as well as Pharaoh’s baker and cupbearer, as Chris has noted. And each time it appears in the same place in the structure.
I agree on evil/evil one, but the structure here would make that evil the curse of the Covenant, which satan uses as a tool of tyranny and destruction: temptation and then legal (and just) condemnation, a witness like those at the trial of Christ. You are welcome to come and ask tough questions / throw fruit. And the best place to start is the ebook: http://bit.ly/15xExO3
Cheers and thanks for reading!

By: Mike S

Mike S — Wed, 19 Feb 2014 07:29:42 +0000

Interesting, but I think the link between forgiveness of sins is more closely and more naturally tied to Christ’s words in the sermon on the Mount. The association to the events in Genesis seems to be more eisegetical than anything else (reading INTO a passage what we want to see, rather than reading out of the passage what is clear or natural).
Also, I do not think that the interpretation of line 8 is correct, as the natural Greek words do not talk of the evil one, just evil. Again, I think Chris is getting into dangerous territory of trying to shoehorn a simple passage into a complex framework.

By: David

David — Wed, 19 Feb 2014 02:17:34 +0000

That is a very interesting comparison of the Ten Commandments and the Lord’s Prayer. The pairing up of the Commandments is also an interesting link. I remember reading somewhere (maybe in your blog :)) that the Ten Commandments are all about the rights of God and others, but I think the Lord’s prayer is more about me (us). Very thought provoking.

By: Mike Bull

Mike Bull — Wed, 19 Feb 2014 00:25:53 +0000

Would have been fun to use the pic on the original post…
http://www.bullartistry.com.au/wp/2013/06/24/i-will-kill-her-children-with-death/

By: Mike Bull

Mike Bull — Wed, 19 Feb 2014 00:22:53 +0000

Yeah, they’re really scraping the bottom of the barrel. now.

By: Chris W

Chris W — Wed, 19 Feb 2014 00:15:51 +0000

Nice picture!

And a great recent post on the trinity house blog